"Poland and Switzerland are not far apart".

The Corona pandemic has highlighted the limits of dependence on China and other countries in Asia as the "workbenches of Europe". And the Ukraine war also painfully highlights the vulnerability of supply chains for various industrial products. Therefore, other regions are increasingly coming into focus for sourcing and shoring activities, especially those that are closer and have great industrial and technological potential. Central Europe, with Poland as the largest economic location and a partner with which both trade and investment have grown dynamically in recent years, is thus also becoming increasingly interesting for Swiss companies. But in many respects it is still early days. The 3rd Polish Business and Technology Forum in Switzerland on September 18-19. in the Kursaal Bern wants to help build the necessary bridges.

Mrs. Ambassador Kozłowska, why was the Polish Business and Technology Forum established in Switzerland?

Iwona Kozłowska: The conference is intended to summarize our year-round work and show what we have achieved and the ways in which we can break new ground. I took the initiative right at the beginning of my mission as an ambassador, in the middle of the pandemic. So I'm kind of a "Corona Pandemic Ambassador."

How should we understand this?

Because despite the isolation and the strict measures, I managed to create a fantastic, future-oriented, efficient platform for bilateral, economic, but also technological, scientific and political cooperation. The idea was to create a platform that would first allow us to get to know each other, to diagnose our common potentials. I wanted to build a bridge between Switzerland and Poland. Building bridges is an important tool for me as an ambassador. The dynamics of global developments are so high that I thought to myself: I can't wait, I have to do something here and give my Swiss partners and my Polish colleagues a chance to meet and talk about possible forms of cooperation. In doing so, I hit the bull's eye. Because there was no comparable platform yet that could bring the two countries together.

Actually amazing, because the trade volume of Poland and Switzerland in 2020 was 2.5 billion US dollars, according to my information. Even if Poland is not Switzerland's largest trading partner, that is still a respectable volume. And with a population of almost 40 million people, the country is one of the larger economies in the EU. That is often forgotten, it seems to me.

This is so. According to the latest data, the volume of trade today is over 6 billion euros. Last year alone, exports from Poland to Switzerland increased by 25%. That is impressive. And exports from Switzerland to Poland have also increased by 18%. Poland is also one of the most attractive investment locations in the world today. In this respect, 2022 has also broken records. In Europe, we are now number 1.

To what do you attribute these growth rates? A catch-up effect after the Corona pandemic or the continuation of a sustainable development that actually started before?

There are many factors at play. The need for new suppliers was great, especially for small and medium-sized companies. But they all had to look for new business partners because those in Asia were blocked. So they looked in the closest places - Poland, for example, a country that is quickly accessible and well networked. The country is also strategically located at the interface between East and West, North and South. Poland is developing rapidly and very dynamically. Particularly as a result of the pandemic and now because of the Ukraine war, economic ecosystems have to be rebuilt and modified; alternatives are needed. But there is also the shortage of skilled workers, the transformation in the energy sector, environmental issues - and suddenly you realize that Switzerland and Poland are not so far apart after all and that the two countries have much more to offer each other besides imports and exports.

Skilled workers are certainly a sought-after resource that Swiss companies can find in Poland. But doesn't your country also suffer from a shortage of skilled workers?

Yes, we in Poland are affected by the shortage of skilled workers to the same extent as Switzerland. After all, we are still a developing economy, which means that Poland also needs the best people. And it is precisely the exchange of highly qualified specialists that we must also talk about in the context of economic development, so that we can find solutions together.

And what could be a possible solution?

I believe that many opportunities for our countries will arise from deeper scientific and economic cooperation. Because both countries have a shortage of skilled workers, we have to see where we can be complementary and also compatible, and not in competition. For example, there are Polish IT companies where the best people work for Swiss companies - and they stay in Poland. Many services can be offered directly from Polish locations. This is also useful for the internationalization of Polish companies. Internationalization means exchange, exchange means investment in Switzerland and in Poland. All this can help us to become more compatible. But to achieve this, we first have to talk to each other.

Are there already concrete examples of where this is working and companies from Switzerland and Poland are, as it were, cross-fertilizing each other?

There are. For example, Novartis also has a subsidiary in Poland and a Polish IT company works for this group. And there are other examples as well. It should also be mentioned that we recently opened an honorary consulate in Lugano. As Honorary Consul we were able to win Gian-Luca Lardi, the President of the Association of Master Builders, i.e. a representative of the construction industry, which is also important for Poland. And I hope that we will soon be able to open honorary consulates in the economic centers of Zurich and Geneva.

What does it look like for small and medium-sized enterprises? Or to put it another way: How should we imagine the SME economy in Poland? Where are the similarities with Switzerland?

Poland and Switzerland are very similar in this respect. The core and at the same time the driving force of the Polish economy is also formed by small and medium-sized enterprises, mostly family businesses. These are all still young companies, founded in the 1990s, i.e. during the transition phase from a planned to a free market economy. These family businesses are innovative and adaptable, and they have been one of the reasons why our economy has weathered the most formidable crises of the 21st century, including the financial crisis of 2008 and the pandemic. Poland was the country in the EU that suffered the least damage to its economy. This resulted from the flexibility of its SMEs. These cover various sectors of the economy. Because we are not focused on and dependent on a single economic sector, we were able to cope well with the pandemic. And the changeover to new working conditions also took place quickly.

The Corona pandemic and now the Ukraine war have had and continue to have a negative influence on economic relations. Apart from these influencing factors, where are other hurdles that perhaps still need to be removed in order to simplify relations between companies in Switzerland and Poland?

You'll have to ask the experts, and that's what we'll be talking about at the Forum. But, of course, it is much easier to cooperate if you belong to a common group. Poland is a member of the EU, Switzerland is not an EU country. This is indeed an obstacle. Of course, there are the bilateral agreements with the European Union in the economic sphere, which regulate trade. And just because Poland is not the most important trade partner of Switzerland - for example, compared to Germany or even Baden-Württemberg - this obstacle should not be weighted less. It is therefore to be hoped that the European Commission and Switzerland will find a solution to further regulate cooperation with the EU.

Of course, this shapes the political discussion. The same applies to the issue of immigration. Some people say that we need immigration, but the right people are not coming. Listening to you now, only the "right" people are coming from Poland?

It is difficult to say who are the "right" ones and who are the "wrong" ones. What we simply have to state: All member countries of the EU follow the same rules. It's like a football team; there, too, the game is played according to jointly established rules. So if you want to benefit from the European single market as a matter of course and have all the privileges like all the other member countries, you must also be prepared to share the costs, and not just engage in "cherry picking". Always making exceptions for Switzerland will become difficult at some point and is not fair. If you want to play along, then play by the same rules.

And Switzerland does too little of that?

Yes. Switzerland is very self-centered. But one must also admit: This results from its geopolitical and strategic position; it is a neutral country and a leader in many areas. As the most innovative country in the world, Switzerland brings in the best of the best. And in this respect, it is difficult to compete with Switzerland at all. When Polish scientists come to Switzerland, for example, they very rarely go back because they have very good working conditions here and a high standard of living. Switzerland has created this locational advantage for itself.

But what about compliance with the rules of the game within the EU? There are always countries that overstretch the Maastricht criteria, for example. Poland, for example, will have to incur massive debt to finance its military buildup, probably beyond the limits set in the Maastricht treaties.

Since the introduction of the Stability and Growth Pact (SGP) in 1997, the Excessive Deficit Procedure (EDP) has actually been applied to each of the EU countries. However, due to the Corona pandemic, in 2020 the EU activated the so-called general escape clause, which allows member states to temporarily deviate from the requirements of the Pact in case of exceptional events. Due to the Russian aggression against Ukraine, the clause is valid until the end of 2023. As a result of the war in Ukraine, Poland has increased its defense spending to about 3 % of GDP. The deficit in 2024 will therefore be 3.7 % of GDP. Poland is seeking special treatment in the EU for this spending and already has the support of several countries. However, the issues of compliance in the relations between Switzerland and the EU, on the one hand, and the application of the SGP in the EU, on the other hand, should not be compared. Indeed, legislation based on the SGP contains some leeway for exceptional situations. International agreements, on the other hand, must be fully implemented in accordance with the provisions contained therein.

The so-called cohesion billion has also been a topic of discussion. With this Swiss contribution to selected EU members, money also flows from Switzerland to Poland. These funds are also intended as a kind of "development aid", so that economic and social inequalities can be reduced. How does Poland use these financial resources?

I am bothered by the term "development aid", because Poland is not a developing country. It is interesting that Switzerland is opening up a bit to the outside world and is no longer so self-centered. You can't look at other countries solely from the perspective of your own economic interests. Often, you don't know these countries or their potential. And then people believe that this one billion is necessary to level out these opportunities, to level out these differences in Europe. But these times are over. But to your question: Poland will receive 320 million euros of this billion. That sounds like a lot, but it is rather little in relation to the trade volume of 6 billion - and also little compared to the profit that Switzerland gets for itself from access to the European single market. Nevertheless, I see this money as an investment in the future of bilateral relations. It has to be seen in the context of economic and scientific cooperation. It is important that everyone benefits from joint projects and that we can create a new quality in our bilateral relations, for example through the exchange of new technologies and the transfer of know-how.

Where, for example?

In every area, such as vocational training. Switzerland is a successful model here. We in Poland are in the process of rebuilding our vocational training system, and we need the exchange with Switzerland. In this respect, I am very active and I am very happy that in this respect Poland also benefits from the Swiss Contribution. These funds can also finance partnerships between vocational schools, for example. It is important that Poland and Switzerland continue to move closer together here. Poland has a lot to offer in terms of research. In the discussions I have, I notice a great interest in exchanges with Poland. But the paths have not yet been properly opened up. I therefore hope that there will be a further opening for scientists and that many research projects can be financed, bilaterally or multilaterally - and this also with funds from other partners.

What is the importance of Poland for European research and development?

Poland has built the third largest research network in Europe. Switzerland is the most innovative country in the world, and we have the ambition to get to the top as well. We are therefore focusing on the exchange of scientists and technology transfer. We have a lot to offer Europe. Polish scientists and researchers have been making great contributions to international research projects for years. This is particularly visible in Switzerland. Because ultimately, we want to develop Europe as a strong innovation and business location together with Poland and Switzerland. We should start from this perspective. We all belong to the European family and are all affected by the same global problems and challenges. We must solve these together - you cannot solve a major global problem alone.

Further information and registration possibilities for the 3rd Polish Business and Technology Forum in Switzerland is available here.

About the person

Iwona Kozłowska has been Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Poland to the Swiss Confederation and the Principality of Liechtenstein since 2020. She started her diplomatic career in 1999 as Deputy Director of the Polish Institute Berlin. In 2001-2005 she worked as an expert on Western Europe and the Weimar Triangle in the Foreign Policy Department of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland, after which she moved to the European Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Section for German-speaking Countries). From 2007 to 2012 she worked as 1st Counsellor in the Political Section of the Embassy of the Republic of Poland in Berlin, which she headed in 2011. In 2012-2014 she was the Deputy Director of the Office of the Government Commissioner for International Dialogue in the Prime Minister's Office. From 2014 to 2020, she worked again at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where she held the posts of section head, deputy director and finally director in the Department for Cooperation with Poles Abroad.